San Diego Human Trafficking prosecutor Flavio Nominati joins the podcast to discuss the crime of human trafficking. January is National Slavery and Human Trafficking Prevention Month, and we wanted to speak with our local expert on this important topic.
San Diego Human Trafficking prosecutor Flavio Nominati joins the podcast to discuss the crime of human trafficking. January is National Slavery and Human Trafficking Prevention Month, and we wanted to speak with our local expert on this important topic. Deputy DA Flavio Nominati tells us about how he prosecutes these crimes, what are the red flags to look for, and what parents can do. He also discusses how young boys are often overlooked as targets of human trafficking. If you're in San Diego County, make sure to check out "Human Trafficking 101" on January 10, 2023 between 5:30 p.m. and 7:30 p.m. at One Safe Place, 1050 Los Vallecitos Blvd, San Marcos, CA 92069, or the Spanish version on January 13, 2023 at the same place.
Report suspected human trafficking activity by calling 1-888-3737-888 or texting BeFree (233733).
We took a long break because Jorge Del Portillo was in a murder trial in the case against Jade Janks, which was covered by CourtTV. More on that case in the future!
Bio: Flavio Nominati has been a prosecutor for approximately 11 years. In that time, he has been assigned to a diverse array of specialized units, including Domestic Violence, Elder Abuse, Juvenile Prosecution, Crimes Against Peace Officers, and the Gang Prosecution Unit. Currently, he is assigned to the San Diego Human Trafficking Task Force. In this capacity he serves as the Human Trafficking Team Leader for the Sex Crimes and Human Trafficking Division. He works with approximately 10 Task Force officers (TFOs) as they develop their human trafficking cases. In addition, he serves as the Executive Chair of the San Diego Human Trafficking Task Force
Crime or Fiction: Each episode we look at the laws on the books; 2 are real, 1 is fake, and I quiz my panel of experts to see if they can guess which one is the fake. The theme this week is sex laws.
A. In Pennsylvania, it is illegal to maintain a brothel, which is defined as a house with 16 or more women living together, unintentionally banning most sororities since 1951.
B. In California, it is illegal to inveigle a person under 18 into a house of ill fame.
C. In Sweden, prostitution is legal, but it is illegal to be a “John” or customer of sex work.
Disclaimer: The views expressed on this podcast are solely of the speakers and do not reflect the views of the Deputy DA's Association nor the District Attorney.
Questions and comments can be emailed to crimenewsinsider@gmail.com.
Featured in the Top 10 San Diego Podcasts!
Featured in the Top 10 Criminal Law Podcasts!
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Music by: The Only Ocean - "Snake"
Image by: Pixabay user Michael Gaida.
00;00;00;01 - 00;00;24;03
Flavio Nominati
These traffickers, these defendants, these suspects, they use the most manipulative, the most despicable tactics to lure in our most vulnerable victims and populations into some horrific circumstances and circumstances which, given the dynamics of the relationship, our victims cannot escape.
00;00;29;05 - 00;00;34;15
Jorge Del Portillo
Welcome to Crime News Insider. This is Jorge Del Portillo, and with me, as always, is Laurie Hauf. How are you doing, Laurie?
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Laurie Hauf
Happy New Year, Jorge.
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Jorge Del Portillo
Happy New Year. I know it's been a couple of months since we've recorded---
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Laurie Hauf
A little busy, my friend. You've been a little busy. I'll give you a pass.
00;00;44;07 - 00;00;54;00
Jorge Del Portillo
I was in trial for a couple of weeks, and unbeknownst to me, there was going to be a bunch of cameras there. And until, like, the first day of trial, a bunch of cameras showed up.
00;00;54;00 - 00;00;55;19
Laurie Hauf
And I saw you.
00;00;55;25 - 00;00;56;15
Jorge Del Portillo
You saw me?
00;00;56;20 - 00;00;57;09
Laurie Hauf
Yeah. On the news.
00;00;57;29 - 00;01;14;06
Jorge Del Portillo
You know, the good thing about a podcast is you could edit it afterwards, and on a Court TV, you cannot. So I'm pretty embarrassed by it. But it was a good result. It was, yeah. And went out there that you can check it out. It's the Jade Janks trial. There was a podcast on it already.
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Laurie Hauf
And were you featured in it?
00;01;16;19 - 00;01;30;25
Jorge Del Portillo
I was not. But they talked about, you know, prosecution strategy. Little did they know that. Hello? They can come to the source and, but I can't talk about the case until after sentencing anyways. So, yeah, maybe a future date. They will get into.
00;01;31;05 - 00;01;32;05
Laurie Hauf
The first interview.
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Jorge Del Portillo
Yes. Yes, exactly. I will give you the exclusive, Laurie.
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Laurie Hauf
Thank you.
00;01;38;03 - 00;02;09;16
Jorge Del Portillo
Well, today we are recording a podcast. It is January 5th, 2023, and January is Human Trafficking Awareness Month. And with that, we wanted to do an episode on this issue. In order to talk about this issue, we have Flavio Nominati with the San Diego DA's office. Flavio Nominati has been a prosecutor for 11 years and in that time he's been assigned to various units the Domestic violence unit, elder abuse, juvenile, crimes against peace officers, and the gang unit.
00;02;10;06 - 00;02;27;09
Jorge Del Portillo
He's currently assigned to the San Diego Human Trafficking Task Force, and in that capacity he is the team leader for the sex crimes and human trafficking division within our office. In addition, he serves as the executive chair of the San Diego Human Trafficking Task Force. Flavio Nominati, welcome to the podcast.
00;02;27;22 - 00;02;28;28
Flavio Nominati
Hi Jorge, hi Laurie.
00;02;29;08 - 00;02;30;10
Laurie Hauf
Hi, welcome.
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Flavio Nominati
Thank you very much. Happy New Year.
00;02;32;16 - 00;02;42;21
Laurie Hauf
Happy New Year. Before we start about this very important topic, we need to get one other topic out of the way, and that is World Cup. I think you were for France right? Yeah.
00;02;42;21 - 00;02;43;29
Jorge Del Portillo
You're rooting for France.
00;02;44;13 - 00;02;47;13
Flavio Nominati
I'm sorry to all the French listeners. I'm sorry.
00;02;48;02 - 00;02;53;07
Laurie Hauf
We have a lot of listeners. France will be very disappointed.
00;02;53;07 - 00;03;07;00
Flavio Nominati
Yeah. So Argentina through and through went to Buenos Aires after the semifinal, got tickets. My wife and I went out on a limb. Thank you to all the people who covered court for me. I was sitting.
00;03;08;10 - 00;03;08;24
Laurie Hauf
There not.
00;03;09;04 - 00;03;18;21
Flavio Nominati
Very well. Hey, you know what? I'll tell them to listen so they hear the things. But yeah, so I did go to Argentina for the.
00;03;18;21 - 00;03;18;27
Laurie Hauf
How was it?
00;03;19;28 - 00;03;20;21
Flavio Nominati
It was incredible.
00;03;20;24 - 00;03;22;28
Laurie Hauf
Were there like people in the streets going crazy?
00;03;23;02 - 00;03;46;17
Flavio Nominati
About 10% of the Argentine population was out on the street on Tuesday after the World Cup final because they declared a national holiday. And so we were lucky enough to still be there. And we went out and we were in the crowd. It was the most joyous thing. I mean, there was not a single business that was looted.
00;03;46;25 - 00;03;50;01
Flavio Nominati
There was not a single car that was burned. Turned over, nothing. No windows broken,
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Laurie Hauf
Wow.
00;03;52;02 - 00;03;54;18
Flavio Nominati
Nothing. It was a love fest.
00;03;54;22 - 00;04;00;02
Jorge Del Portillo
Is it because they know there was a prosecutor in the crowd and they didn't want to commit any crimes?
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Flavio Nominati
Oh, I'm sure you know, I didn't see a single to that fact. I didn't see a single police officer. No.
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Laurie Hauf
Because they were all celebrating, too.
00;04;07;25 - 00;04;09;17
Flavio Nominati
Yeah, pretty much They were all around.
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Laurie Hauf
Flavio, when you when you look back like you're an old man, you're now you're sitting in your rocking chair and you look back and you think about your future kids and, you know, you're the happiest memories. You know, your your family's going to like, what was it you're like, Well, you all are great. But let me tell you about the World Cup 2022.
00;04;30;16 - 00;04;54;14
Flavio Nominati
Pretty much. I mean, it was and it was funny because but it came about because in 2014, the last time Argentina made the final, my dad and I were talking about going to Brazil for the final game and we didn't go even if we couldn't get tickets. I was just like, Dad, let's go. We can go to the beach in Brazil and like, hang out even if we're just there.
00;04;55;18 - 00;05;17;26
Flavio Nominati
And my dad and I did not go and my dad, you know, not to bring a bummer or anything, but my dad passed away, has since passed away. And it was something that I always it's probably the only regret I've ever had in my life. And when Argentina passed the semis as my wife looked over me and said, You can't pass this up again.
00;05;17;27 - 00;05;44;12
Flavio Nominati
Flavio, life is giving you a second chance and you got to do it. And I have to be very honest, My, my, my colleagues in the office, the amount of peer pressure I received to go to Argentina, which I've never been to Argentina, like a drop of a hat. It's not the type of country that you go to without preparation. And and so it was really great to have everyone supportive and support me in this endeavor, frankly.
00;05;44;12 - 00;05;48;09
Flavio Nominati
And it was a once in a lifetime incredible experience. So.
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Laurie Hauf
That's awesome.
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Flavio Nominati
Happy New Year.
00;05;51;05 - 00;05;58;27
Laurie Hauf
That is so great. I know my husband was very mad at you because he bet on France, but for.
00;06;02;23 - 00;06;08;21
Laurie Hauf
We need to talk about Human Trafficking Awareness Month or hey, let's get back on track.
00;06;09;00 - 00;06;24;15
Jorge Del Portillo
Let's let's get to it. So Human Trafficking Awareness Month, first of all, what is can you describe for the listeners, you know, we hear human trafficking. We may think of something. What is human trafficking when we're talking about it in this context?
00;06;24;26 - 00;06;51;28
Flavio Nominati
To start the conversation, sometimes it's easier to kind of talk about what human trafficking is not because there are so many misconceptions and myths when it comes to human trafficking, one of which is we hear the word trafficking and we immediately, you know, certain things come to our mind. Sometimes people, the first thing that comes to their mind is a movie like Taken or something, someone being kidnaped, drugged, taken from their house, sent somewhere to work, to do something else.
00;06;52;16 - 00;07;25;21
Flavio Nominati
Now, human trafficking may have a component of that, but that is called smuggling of humans. And though they're they can be related and so the crime can exist together, human trafficking can occur exclusively locally. And that's when somebody is coerced, they're forced they're threatened into doing something that they would not otherwise do. And here in California, that other thing that they are being forced to do is either work or engage in sex.
00;07;26;09 - 00;07;59;00
Flavio Nominati
And so it is a problem that has existed for for some time, although it was not first recognized in a month until 2010, when that was the first human trafficking awareness Month. And it's actually referred to as national slavery and human trafficking prevention months. And I know that that term is something that can be a little bit strong and a little bit jarring for some of the listeners and certainly can invoke a tremendous amount of emotion.
00;07;59;00 - 00;08;50;01
Flavio Nominati
But it's important to include that term slavery, because human trafficking is a form of modern day slavery and these traffickers, these defendants, these suspects, they use the most manipulative, the most despicable tactics to lure in our most vulnerable victims and populations into some horrific circumstances and circumstances which, given the dynamics of the relationship, are victims, cannot escape. And whether it is due to a cycle of violence or a mental manipulation, fear of retribution, lack of a support group, our victims are often isolated and they are often they experience the sensation of feeling trapped.
00;08;50;06 - 00;09;16;20
Flavio Nominati
And this this this awareness this month that we that we engage in this awareness is so important not just to acknowledge our victims who may have survived or are currently being victimized, but to also increase the awareness so that we can identify this crime, a crime which is often described as hiding in plain sight. And it is important to increase the awareness of this.
00;09;16;20 - 00;09;48;19
Flavio Nominati
If you look at the Department of Defense website and you look at the amount of income that is derived from this on a yearly basis, both sex trafficking and labor trafficking, it is billions of dollars. Billion billions with a B, and it is incredible the degree to which this occurs. And like I said, the people who are at the most at risk are our most vulnerable populations.
00;09;49;02 - 00;10;20;21
Flavio Nominati
They are children. It is individuals who come from challenging backgrounds who are manipulated to a life of riches. They're promised that their life will change and their promise that their life will become more profitable. And the reality of it is it's not that way. And what they learn once they have been lured in is that they are trapped.
00;10;21;06 - 00;10;41;06
Flavio Nominati
And so it's a very important month. It's so important that we are hosting two events next week at one safe place and San Marcos. One event is going to be in Spanish. That's going to be next Friday, and the other event is going to be on the 10th.
00;10;42;02 - 00;10;45;20
Jorge Del Portillo
And so January 10th and January 13th are.
00;10;46;19 - 00;11;19;10
Flavio Nominati
Right and these events are really being held to once again educate the community about what signs, how to identify a victim, the signs that a victim may show and display. Another thing, Jorge and Laurie, that that a lot of people want to know is how can they help? How can we help in in stopping this crime? And one thing that I always urge individuals is it's good to say I want to help.
00;11;19;23 - 00;11;51;22
Flavio Nominati
But what is very important is your help should not force you to intervene, to immediately go up to the victim and say, can I help you? Is this your trafficker? Or put that victim in that type of circumstance? Because these situations and this crime, the relationship between the trafficker and the victim is if we can even call it a relationship is in it is remarkably volatile and that interaction can place the victim at great risk.
00;11;51;22 - 00;12;18;07
Flavio Nominati
It could place the person who's intervening at great risk. And so what's important is to report what you see and allow professionals to intervene. And one thing I tell everyone is you can find the full number on the Department of Defense website, but there is a text number that you can text, you can text to the number of be free and you can report.
00;12;18;07 - 00;12;48;25
Flavio Nominati
And that's and that's the federal government will you will be reporting to them what you observed by way of human trafficking. And so that's that's the best way to help it is to educate yourself. It is to urge the education of children. And I can talk a little bit about that, if you'd like, in terms of how COVID has really impacted this crime as well, and especially amongst our younger victims.
00;12;49;07 - 00;12;55;21
Laurie Hauf
Is that because they were on on the computers while, you know, for an extended period of time and very vulnerable in that way?
00;12;56;01 - 00;13;17;25
Flavio Nominati
Absolutely. What we have found is that the most prevalent form of luring of our victims is through the Internet. And the Internet has become the platform of this crime, both for a prospective sex buyer as well as a trafficker and victim.
00;13;18;18 - 00;13;31;07
Laurie Hauf
When you say the Internet that that's so broad to me, but like as a parent or as a child or what? What should they be concerned about or have their have their spidey senses up about social media?
00;13;31;20 - 00;14;14;10
Flavio Nominati
Okay. I will say that about 90% of the cases that we have, the initial interaction between the trafficker and the victim is over social media. And that could be Instagram, Facebook. It's it's liking a photo. It's a sudden random, out of nowhere message from a person that the victim doesn't even know, saying something along the lines of I like the way it complimenting them on their looks, complimenting them on what they're wearing, and it leads to an interaction about what they can do and how much money they can make, and leading them to believe that this life is something worth living.
00;14;14;20 - 00;14;18;22
Jorge Del Portillo
What do you tell parents to be on the lookout for and how do you guard against that?
00;14;19;00 - 00;14;42;01
Flavio Nominati
You know, growing up, my mom would always tell me, be careful when the stranger comes up to you and asks you a question. Always be be mindful of strangers. Right. And that interaction was something that would occur face to face. You'd get your stranger. Now that same conversation needs to be had with with kids and between kids and parents.
00;14;42;10 - 00;15;18;24
Flavio Nominati
When it comes to a stranger online, there there has to be monitoring of social media, of between a parent and a child, or at least a conversation between the parent and the child about this kind of danger because we've seen the victimization of minors increase drastically because of COVID. And so it's something and we've we've recovered juveniles at a really an alarming rate this year alone, more than any other year.
00;15;18;24 - 00;15;45;09
Flavio Nominati
And so that's something that these traffickers know who to pick and they target these juveniles who may be runaways. We have juveniles who come from a very challenging past. Perhaps they were in the foster system. And so they challenge, but they go after these victims and they ensure that they're successful because they give them kind of like a family environment.
00;15;45;17 - 00;15;48;03
Flavio Nominati
That's what they're selling them on.
00;15;48;03 - 00;15;53;26
Laurie Hauf
Can you tell us a little bit about what your job is on the task force and what the task force does?
00;15;54;10 - 00;16;21;22
Flavio Nominati
Absolutely. So this task force is a model that has since been in place across the state. But what it is, is a a grouping of different police agencies across the county, but not just police agencies. We have social services available here, but we have every single police agency in the county, essentially participating with US federal agencies that also participate.
00;16;21;22 - 00;17;00;28
Flavio Nominati
The FBI participates and and I participate on the state side as the prosecutor of these human trafficking cases. There is a colleague of mine from the from the federal side who does the federal cases. And so what we do really is collaborate all together, because what we have learned from this crime is that the more communication exists between law enforcement agencies, the more successful the prosecution can be, the more awareness is brought to us of certain players, of certain individuals that may be involved in this, a certain victims that may be still victimized by other individuals.
00;17;01;07 - 00;17;35;09
Flavio Nominati
And so every for example, Tuesday, we all meet together and we discuss our cases. And one of the most incredible things that I witnessed when I first came to this task force is how important that meeting was, how important it is to just sit around a table with other law enforcement agencies discussing cases, because you'll hear one officer go, oh, you know, I think I saw something when I was reviewing the evidence in my case, I saw something about that guy in my case and so on and so forth.
00;17;35;09 - 00;17;47;16
Flavio Nominati
It creates a collaborative environment and one where you are encouraged to kind of share leads with one another, and then you ultimately bring you ultimately hold these traffickers accountable.
00;17;47;24 - 00;18;12;29
Laurie Hauf
That's great. Yeah. Information sharing is so important because when you have these agencies that are essentially doing the same type of investigations, the same type of work, but operating independently, I mean, we saw that with 9/11, right? That's why we we had a lot of missed missed opportunities there. And when law enforcement does it especially, you realize, oh, my gosh, you know, there's so much crossover.
00;18;13;09 - 00;18;34;20
Flavio Nominati
And that's and that's you mentioned 9/11, but there was this other documentary that I saw on Netflix that struck a chord with me. That was the one on the Night Stalker. Yeah. You could see how the LAPD in their shoes didn't want to share information with one another. And I can't tell you how opposite that is to what we have now.
00;18;34;29 - 00;18;53;26
Flavio Nominati
That's really great. It is law enforcement agencies that are after the same people doing everything they can together to collaborate under one umbrella, despite the fact that they may be sheriffs, despite the fact they may be San Diego police when they submit a report, it's under the human trafficking task force heading.
00;18;53;26 - 00;19;12;01
Jorge Del Portillo
So as a human trafficking prosecutor, you mentioned there's this common perception that, you know, this is global, this is international, this is maybe federal. But you said this is local. As a local prosecutor, what kind of cases do you see as a human trafficking focused prosecutor?
00;19;12;16 - 00;19;43;28
Flavio Nominati
Yeah. So we see on the state side, we see a wide variety of charges. We see a wide variety of types of crimes. I prosecute state assaults with deadly weapons where the trafficker is upset at the victim. And we've had it on video where this trafficker will chase the victim down in his car, up a curb, and chase her down a sidewalk, an entire sidewalk in an effort to intimidate them, in an effort to get them to do what that trafficker wants them to do.
00;19;43;29 - 00;20;09;28
Flavio Nominati
I've seen juveniles be dropped off at hotels by traffickers to engage in sex, in sex acts, hate sex acts. I've seen the other side of the coin. I've seen buyers. And that's one thing that I think really needs to be enforced. And we do that at the district attorney's office. But demand is what keeps this crime going is demand.
00;20;10;18 - 00;20;42;10
Flavio Nominati
And that's what needs to be curbed. And more importantly, that's part of the observations that can help when someone out there wants to know what else to do. That's part of those observations. If you're seeing that demand, it's important. That is the way we reduce this crime, That is the way we stop this crime. But I've seen cases involving violent traffickers just like that one I mentioned a second ago, and traffickers who have deprived their victims of the most basic fundamental needs.
00;20;42;10 - 00;21;05;18
Flavio Nominati
I had one particular victim that I worked with that the very first time I met her, it had been after she had been working for a trafficker effectively for two months. And when I met with her, it was literally seconds after she had been recovered because I was working this with this task force. And so I asked her, you know, how are you?
00;21;05;18 - 00;21;24;11
Flavio Nominati
Have you eaten something? You want something to eat? And she goes, That's funny that you asked me that. And I go, Well, why? Why is that funny? And she goes, I haven't been asked what I want to eat in in about two months. I'm always told what I'm going to eat. And like, well, you know, what do you want to eat?
00;21;25;01 - 00;21;49;19
Flavio Nominati
And she goes, Jack in the Box. And I go, Jack in the Box of everything that you could possibly want. You want Jack in the Box. And she goes, Yeah, I really want Jack in the box. And it was it was a moment where as a prosecutor, you know, sometimes when you're a prosecutor, you're thinking, how can I how can I prove this case?
00;21;49;19 - 00;22;17;23
Flavio Nominati
How can I hold this person accountable? But what you can never lose track of inside of is the fact that this these aren't chess pieces that we're manipulating here. These are human beings. These are individuals who have incredible who've overcome incredible trauma and or experiencing incredible trauma. And that interaction with this victim, it was like a bucket of ice cold water over my head where it just kind of.
00;22;18;07 - 00;22;20;21
Laurie Hauf
Puts it on perspective. Yeah, it really does.
00;22;20;27 - 00;22;46;22
Flavio Nominati
And and I've seen interactions between traffickers and victims where, you know, a victim is texting the trafficker. You know, she's probably out working. And you can tell because she's saying, you know, there's there's very little people out here. No one's stopping. And it's a day that she goes she said, it's cold out here. And the trafficker writes back, No one's stopping because you're wearing a jacket.
00;22;46;28 - 00;22;56;18
Flavio Nominati
Take off your jacket. And so these these these traffickers are despicable. They don't care about their victims. They care about money.
00;22;57;03 - 00;23;15;09
Jorge Del Portillo
What do you tell the community, usually that are the red flags to look out for, I'm assuming there are some typical industries like hotels. I would imagine what are the types of industries that you speak with? You know, nurses, hotel workers? What are the red flags to look for?
00;23;15;19 - 00;23;50;27
Flavio Nominati
Yeah, I've spoken to that in a school environment. I've spoken to parents. Next weeks is going to be just to the community at large. We've trained the district attorney's office has trained hotels on how to identify kind of various markings of a of a human trafficking situation. But normally what we see, especially with our younger victims, is a change in attitude, perhaps a little bit more of being isolated in cases where the trafficking is occurring online, we see them kind of withdrawing a little bit more to their computer.
00;23;51;02 - 00;24;15;15
Flavio Nominati
In the more significant cases, we see sudden appearance of either bruises, of tattoos is one of the most common things that we see in our victims are tattoos because our trafficker encourages them to get branded, quote unquote, with the traffickers name or with a crown with the initials of the trafficker.
00;24;15;15 - 00;24;17;28
Jorge Del Portillo
Or why? Why a crown tattoo?
00;24;18;20 - 00;24;20;19
Flavio Nominati
That's the king.
00;24;21;04 - 00;24;23;15
Jorge Del Portillo
Oh Gotcha. So it's a crown with their initials.
00;24;23;27 - 00;24;25;10
Flavio Nominati
Right. That's the boss.
00;24;25;28 - 00;24;44;06
Laurie Hauf
One of the things that I saw that our office is doing is putting more awareness out about trafficking of boys, because we always think about trafficking of girls. And I think maybe historically or traditionally that may be true. But we we also see and you probably see the human trafficking of boys. Can you speak to that?
00;24;45;16 - 00;25;08;17
Flavio Nominati
That's 100%, earlier, I said that this is a crime that occurs in plain sight. And the reason for that is that our victims come from so many different walks of life. We've seen victims who are very old. We've seen victims who are very young. We've seen victims who are young girls, young boys. And so that is something to be mindful in the community.
00;25;08;17 - 00;25;16;14
Flavio Nominati
This is not just the victim, does not look a certain way and fits into the box in a certain way. They come from all different walks of life.
00;25;16;14 - 00;25;38;12
Jorge Del Portillo
Well, thank you so much, Flavio, for everything that you do. You you do a tremendous service to the community in your position. And as the executive chair of the Human Trafficking Task Force, which I believe was started by our very own District Attorney Summer Stephan, in years ago when she was not the district attorney, but thank you so much for everything that you do for you.
00;25;38;20 - 00;25;39;07
Jorge Del Portillo
Really appreciate it.
00;25;39;07 - 00;25;40;14
Flavio Nominati
My pleasure. Thank you.
00;25;40;14 - 00;25;58;01
Jorge Del Portillo
Great job. But we are not done yet. We always end the show with, on a light note and we are going to play a game called Crime or Fiction, where each episode we look at the laws on the books. Two are real. One is fake. And I quiz my panel to see if they can guess which one is the fake.
00;25;58;07 - 00;26;06;19
Jorge Del Portillo
The theme, as you might have guessed, is some human trafficking laws or sex laws on the books throughout the world. Are you ready?
00;26;07;02 - 00;26;07;24
Flavio Nominati
No. No.
00;26;09;08 - 00;26;14;08
Jorge Del Portillo
First game of the year. What are you going to say?
00;26;14;16 - 00;26;15;19
Laurie Hauf
I got a stretch for this one.
00;26;16;10 - 00;26;31;11
Jorge Del Portillo
All right, here we go. A. In Pennsylvania, it is illegal to maintain a brothel, which is defined as a house with 16 or more women living together, unintentionally banning sororities from most sources since 1951.
00;26;32;11 - 00;26;32;27
Laurie Hauf
That's funny.
00;26;33;20 - 00;26;57;13
Jorge Del Portillo
B. In California, it is illegal to inveigle a person under 18 into a house of ill fame.
C. In Sweden, prostitution is legal, but it is illegal to be a John or a customer of sex work.
Two are real. One is fake and I'm going to start with Laurie because I feel like our expert usually gets it right.
00;26;57;21 - 00;27;01;18
Jorge Del Portillo
Let's start with Lauriefirst. Which one do you think is the fake?
00;27;02;19 - 00;27;15;02
Laurie Hauf
Oh, this one's tough. Yes. I don't know about Sweden, and I feel like you just like the word inveigle, so I'm not going to pick B.
00;27;15;08 - 00;27;16;08
Jorge Del Portillo
It's a fancy word.
00;27;16;12 - 00;27;22;10
Laurie Hauf
It is too fancy. I want to go with A, Pennsylvania sororities.
00;27;23;20 - 00;27;31;09
Jorge Del Portillo
Pennsylvania? It's illegal to maintain a brothel defined as a house with 16 or more women living together. Okay. Flavio, what do you think?
00;27;32;01 - 00;27;34;24
Flavio Nominati
Yeah, I think A is the fake law.
00;27;35;14 - 00;27;38;27
Jorge Del Portillo
Okay. Any thoughts behind that, with your expertise?
00;27;39;11 - 00;28;07;26
Flavio Nominati
So I happen to know a little bit about the Swedish Swedish stuff because of a certain discussion that happened in the community related to how Sweden does business. And in California, actually, it is illegal to inveigle a minor into a house of ill fame for the purposes of prostitution. That's the common additional. Or to engage in a sex act within.
00;28;08;03 - 00;28;10;13
Flavio Nominati
So I just happened to just know that.
00;28;10;16 - 00;28;12;12
Jorge Del Portillo
So okay well.
00;28;13;20 - 00;28;17;20
Laurie Hauf
The exact definition or, you know the exact I and maybe.
00;28;17;25 - 00;28;18;20
Jorge Del Portillo
Maybe you're wrong.
00;28;18;24 - 00;28;30;23
Flavio Nominati
We had a case, believe it or not, we had a case that we were looking at to charge someone for kind of having a house of ill repute or a little fame.
00;28;31;02 - 00;28;32;12
Jorge Del Portillo
What is a house of ill fame?
00;28;33;05 - 00;28;51;29
Flavio Nominati
Is basically a brothel. A house where you're like you're having you're conducting sex acts within the house for money. And so we had to actually look into that and see what other different types of code sections that we could potentially charge the individual with. So that's that's why I was actually familiar with that.
00;28;52;11 - 00;28;56;06
Jorge Del Portillo
Okay. Well, then I'm just going to cut to the chase. Flavio nailed it.
00;28;57;24 - 00;28;59;10
Laurie Hauf
Wait, I nailed it first.
00;28;59;10 - 00;29;26;21
Jorge Del Portillo
Yes, you nailed it. You nailed it, Laurie. Yes. Okay. So a is a fake. But let's talk about Sweden. In Sweden. It's known as the I can't even pronounce it, K-v-i-n-n-o-f-r-i-d, Kvinnofrid Law. That was passed in 1999. And it serves as the what's called the Nordic model for sex trade legislation. And it's adopted by Norway, Iceland, Canada and Northern Ireland.
00;29;27;00 - 00;29;46;04
Jorge Del Portillo
And it's basically legal to engage in sex work, but not to be the customer of sex work. That's how I understand it is how you understand it, Flavio. Yeah. Okay. So in Sweden, that is a law. And then B, it is illegal to inveigle or entice, that what it means, a person who is a minor into a house of ill fame or ill repute.
00;29;46;17 - 00;30;12;07
Jorge Del Portillo
And it's for the purposes of prostitution or to have illicit carnal connection with another person. I threw this out there because I found this. It's Penal Code Section 266. And I remember my first year in the office, we were trying to figure out a way to, you know, how to is this a crime? What crime is it? This person broke into a young girl's room and was asking her to come back to his place.
00;30;12;16 - 00;30;37;09
Jorge Del Portillo
And she said no. And so he left. And so we found this code section called "Inveiglement" it's an unknown section unless you're Flavio Nominati, you with the human trafficking task Force. That means A, in Pennsylvania, it is not illegal to have a house with 16 or more women living together. But if you go on the Internet, a lot of people say that, Oh, did he know in Pennsylvania, sororities are banned because of this brothel law?
00;30;37;19 - 00;30;50;15
Jorge Del Portillo
And that is a law that has been debunked. It is not on the books. So good job, Laurie. And good job, Flavio. Yeah, there's a lot of pressure, but something happened. Yes. You went.
00;30;51;09 - 00;30;52;05
Flavio Nominati
Do I get somethign now?
00;30;52;06 - 00;31;10;24
Jorge Del Portillo
You win a free French soccer jersey. You know, I was looking at our stats. We've been downloaded in multiple countries. The top of the top ten countries. France is on there. We have not been downloaded in Argentina. So you got to contact someone in Argentina and tell them.
00;31;11;02 - 00;31;11;18
Laurie Hauf
Got to get your homies out there.
00;31;11;26 - 00;31;13;24
Jorge Del Portillo
Or we going to do an episode in Spanish.
00;31;13;24 - 00;31;18;26
Flavio Nominati
Translate to Spanish, the next sex will be in Spanish.
00;31;19;17 - 00;31;22;02
Laurie Hauf
Well, thank you, Flavio. It was lovely to have you.
00;31;22;10 - 00;31;22;28
Flavio Nominati
Thank you, guys for having me.
00;31;23;05 - 00;31;42;11
Jorge Del Portillo
Thank you so much. And for all of our listeners that are in the community in San Diego, that trafficking, Human Trafficking 101 is on Tuesday, January 10th, from 5:30 p.m. to 7:30 p.m. at One Safe Place. I'm going to put the link in the show notes. Flavio, are you going to speak at that event?
00;31;42;26 - 00;31;45;02
Flavio Nominati
I'll be speaking on Friday in the Spanish one.
00;31;45;05 - 00;31;50;12
Jorge Del Portillo
Okay. And where is the Spanish event on Friday, January 13th?
00;31;50;20 - 00;31;52;03
Flavio Nominati
Same place, One Safe Place.
00;31;52;11 - 00;31;59;25
Jorge Del Portillo
All right. I will put a link into the show notes. Thank you so much, Flavio, for everything you do and for coming on the podcast. Laurie, thank you, as always.
00;32;00;13 - 00;32;03;05
Laurie Hauf
Lovely to see you as well. It's nice to be back.
00;32;03;13 - 00;32;08;11
Jorge Del Portillo
Yes, we're finally back. And until my next trial or your next trial, Laurie.
00;32;09;20 - 00;32;12;01
Laurie Hauf
Which could be never. So, yes, I'll be around.
00;32;12;28 - 00;32;24;22
Jorge Del Portillo
Well, thank you, everyone, again. And until next time. This is a crime News Insider podcast.
00;32;30;13 - 00;32;48;26
Jorge Del Portillo
The views expressed in this podcast are solely of the speakers and do not reflect the views of the Deputy D.A. Association nor the District Attorney. Questions and comments can be sent to CrimeNewsInsider@gmail.com. Please leave a rating and review on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to this show. Remember to follow us on Facebook and Twitter.
00;32;49;04 - 00;32;54;14
Jorge Del Portillo
Our Twitter handle is @SanDiegoDDAs. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.